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Post by Obo on Sept 3, 2011 22:23:23 GMT -5
I like it. People would be bitching if everyone knew who would win during night one. And also, something's gotta be the main event for night 1, right? I would have been perfectly okay with a Corperal vs. Tremont night 1 main. I would not be bitching if I "knew who won" because by the time I get to see it, the event will be a week or two old bare minimum. so I'd rather have the best possible matches through the tournament.
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Post by rotten4life on Sept 3, 2011 23:18:36 GMT -5
You guys are talking as if the matches have predetermined winners! lol It's still real to me! <3 haha Lol, nice. I like the first round matches so far for the fact these guys will be fresh and the quailty of matches should be awesome!
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Post by indyfan80 on Sept 4, 2011 0:10:45 GMT -5
The thing I like the most about these first four matches is there isn't any mention of any lighttube stips. I also agree that those needs to be toned down a bit this year. I could not disagree more. lighttubes are what makes a good death match. tubes and even panes of glass give that visual that a death match needs. not enough tubes is one of the main things that made the last kotdm suck. the overuse of barbed wire gets boring quick. yeah it hurts obviously, but when used over and over the whole effect is gone. light tubes never get old because of the awesome visual effect they make. toning down tubes is simply toning down a death match, and who wants to see that? i would use much less barbed wire, and add more tubes and panes of glass, and really anything that gives that visual effect. if this whole anti tubes thing is about injuries, well if you look the only main injuries from tubes came from using those little foreign tubes, which everybody knows by now not to use, and by throwing somebody through tubes attached to the ring ropes, meaning drakes nipple and gauges artery. easy solution, that i think everybody has already figured out. dont throw people through the tubes when they are attached to the ropes. very simple. and you see there have been no major injuries with tubes since. this is a death match tournament. the point is violence. injures can happen and thats what makes it death defying. but when you use all trained death match professionals ( and not guys in their first death match ever) that have been in many death matches before, they know what they are doing, and thats why very few serious injuries happen in them . if you ever notcied many more serious injuries occur in non death matches than in death matches. nota coincidence.
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Post by bigolegreezy on Sept 4, 2011 7:11:06 GMT -5
Me personally, I LOVE LIGHT TUBES! Single tubes, bundles, log cabings, bats, whatever. I like the pop and OOOOOOOOO. . . SHINEY.
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Post by The Arch Bishop of IWA on Sept 4, 2011 7:34:05 GMT -5
Masada vs Tremont is a dream match, those two will kill each other. Who cares if one of them won't advance. That match alone is enough.
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Post by TravyCool on Sept 4, 2011 8:49:24 GMT -5
Yea some good matches and no don't want to overkill Lighttubes all the time.
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Post by Obo on Sept 4, 2011 14:47:15 GMT -5
The thing I like the most about these first four matches is there isn't any mention of any lighttube stips. I also agree that those needs to be toned down a bit this year. I could not disagree more. lighttubes are what makes a good death match. tubes and even panes of glass give that visual that a death match needs. not enough tubes is one of the main things that made the last kotdm suck. the overuse of barbed wire gets boring quick. yeah it hurts obviously, but when used over and over the whole effect is gone. light tubes never get old because of the awesome visual effect they make. toning down tubes is simply toning down a death match, and who wants to see that? i would use much less barbed wire, and add more tubes and panes of glass, and really anything that gives that visual effect. if this whole anti tubes thing is about injuries, well if you look the only main injuries from tubes came from using those little foreign tubes, which everybody knows by now not to use, and by throwing somebody through tubes attached to the ring ropes, meaning drakes nipple and gauges artery. easy solution, that i think everybody has already figured out. dont throw people through the tubes when they are attached to the ropes. very simple. and you see there have been no major injuries with tubes since. this is a death match tournament. the point is violence. injures can happen and thats what makes it death defying. but when you use all trained death match professionals ( and not guys in their first death match ever) that have been in many death matches before, they know what they are doing, and thats why very few serious injuries happen in them . if you ever notcied many more serious injuries occur in non death matches than in death matches. nota coincidence. Drake's hand volcano came from non-skinny tubes that he got powerbombed onto, attached to a plastic bat. So your logic is flawed there.
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Post by indyfan80 on Sept 4, 2011 17:21:06 GMT -5
I could not disagree more. lighttubes are what makes a good death match. tubes and even panes of glass give that visual that a death match needs. not enough tubes is one of the main things that made the last kotdm suck. the overuse of barbed wire gets boring quick. yeah it hurts obviously, but when used over and over the whole effect is gone. light tubes never get old because of the awesome visual effect they make. toning down tubes is simply toning down a death match, and who wants to see that? i would use much less barbed wire, and add more tubes and panes of glass, and really anything that gives that visual effect. if this whole anti tubes thing is about injuries, well if you look the only main injuries from tubes came from using those little foreign tubes, which everybody knows by now not to use, and by throwing somebody through tubes attached to the ring ropes, meaning drakes nipple and gauges artery. easy solution, that i think everybody has already figured out. dont throw people through the tubes when they are attached to the ropes. very simple. and you see there have been no major injuries with tubes since. this is a death match tournament. the point is violence. injures can happen and thats what makes it death defying. but when you use all trained death match professionals ( and not guys in their first death match ever) that have been in many death matches before, they know what they are doing, and thats why very few serious injuries happen in them . if you ever notcied many more serious injuries occur in non death matches than in death matches. nota coincidence. Drake's hand volcano came from non-skinny tubes that he got powerbombed onto, attached to a plastic bat. So your logic is flawed there. No, not at all. That is just one more thing to avoid. If your smart you learn by mistakes. What it comes down to is IWA has a long way to go to get back to what it once was. They will never do that by being pussies in death matches. Death matches are supposed to be death defying. I want the old school IWA back when the stuff was great. Not that shit version from the last couple of years. Light tubes make a death match. That's just the way it is. If you want to be a top death match fed you do it the right way. If you want to be a fed that runs a shitty tournament, that was mild and not very good, then that is exactly what you will be known as. T.O.D. sucked this year, which is very unusual. IWA needs to use that to their advantage and put themselves back on that map by having a better tournament. Or they can blow the chance and have a mild death match tournament that will tell all the real death match fans that the real IWA is permanently dead. Look at the history of anytime IWA tried to go soft. It died and almost went out of business. Vince Mcmahon may be trying to tell people that the attitude area is over and nobody wants to see hardcore bloody stuff, but his ratings prove otherwise. You might just be drinking the wrong koolaid, if you believe that bs.
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Post by Obo on Sept 4, 2011 18:19:41 GMT -5
Masada vs Tremont is a dream match, those two will kill each other. Who cares if one of them won't advance. That match alone is enough. happened in round 2 of this year's TOD. Drake's hand volcano came from non-skinny tubes that he got powerbombed onto, attached to a plastic bat. So your logic is flawed there. No, not at all. That is just one more thing to avoid. If your smart you learn by mistakes. What it comes down to is IWA has a long way to go to get back to what it once was. They will never do that by being pussies in death matches. Death matches are supposed to be death defying. I want the old school IWA back when the stuff was great. Not that shit version from the last couple of years. Light tubes make a death match. That's just the way it is. If you want to be a top death match fed you do it the right way. If you want to be a fed that runs a shitty tournament, that was mild and not very good, then that is exactly what you will be known as. T.O.D. sucked this year, which is very unusual. IWA needs to use that to their advantage and put themselves back on that map by having a better tournament. Or they can blow the chance and have a mild death match tournament that will tell all the real death match fans that the real IWA is permanently dead. Look at the history of anytime IWA tried to go soft. It died and almost went out of business. Vince Mcmahon may be trying to tell people that the attitude area is over and nobody wants to see hardcore bloody stuff, but his ratings prove otherwise. You might just be drinking the wrong koolaid, if you believe that bs. what on earth are you talking about? The Highland era of IWA were some of the biggest crowds they ever drew, and most of those crowds would just leave before any hardcore stuff. Compared to just a few months prior, shows in the Clarksville building that would draw 20 people for a FBTW main.. Hardcore wrestling doesn't need light tubes. there's plenty of other gimmicks that can be used to have a great deathmatch. Light tubes didn't start being used until the early 2000s and there was plenty of deathmatches before that. You cannot argue that Masada and Danny Havoc's gusset plate deathmatch wasn't one of the sickest and most violent matches in CZW history. you just can't. and that happened in a place where light tubes are banned. I like light tubes. I think 200 light tube matches are good main events. But I also think that stuff like "put your opponent through this many light tube log cabins" matches are lame and incredibly tired, and that just adding random light tubes for the sake of random light tubes is lame (yes, looking at you, BJW). If you can work and know how to work hardcore, you don't need a ton of gimmicks to have a tremendous match and definitely don't need stuff smashing everywhere. Masada had a tremendous hardcore match in ACW a few months ago with, of all people, Darin Corbin. I don't think they used more than chairs and maybe a beer bottle, but it was one of the better hardcore matches I've ever seen. Not that I'd say it's what I'd book for KOTDM, but adding a ton of glass to the match certainly wouldn't have made it a better match. Too many guys use deathmatches as a reason to not work, and not a reason to build the drama and psychology of the match. Watch the old Onita deathmatches from FMW. they were incredibly violent and bloody matches, but there was a build up to the violence. they didn't just start ramming each other into the barbed wire. they had a reason for why everything happened. FMW will always be remembered as one of the most violent federations of all time and guess what? FMW never once used light tubes.. I'd much rather see creative weapons that have never been seen before and stipulations that are unique than just "every match has a ton of light tubes". TLC & four corners of pain is a good start. I think that's part of the allure to gussets. they haven't been done a thousand times to death, so everyone wants to see what they are going to do in this situation. what'll happen when you get powerbombed through a gusset table. what happens if someone stomps on a gusset barefoot. it's all been done with light tubes a thousand times. the tube explodes and has a history of severely hurting people. Not to mention, you know how much of a pain in the ass light tube glass is to clean up?
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Post by The Arch Bishop of IWA on Sept 4, 2011 18:56:45 GMT -5
In my opinion Highland killed IWA, but I don't want to go into all the details. Fans were extremely political in Highland and that's all I gotta say. Not every death match should have light tubes but light tubes also make a great death match tournament. IWA was always known for lots of glass and I don't see any reason to tone it down. Indy Fan is right, IWA must come back with a strong show and I'm sure they will.
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Post by BestMistyEVER on Sept 4, 2011 20:24:55 GMT -5
Not to mention light tubes are unpredictable, sitting in the crowd at a KOTDM I had glass fly into my CAN of soda, as well as hit me and cut me... not complaining, small price to pay for a GREAT show, but what if a piece of stray glass hit someone else? Someone not so forgiving? Or, God foorbid, a child? Or flew into the drink of a child, who takes a drink unknowingly and swallws light tube glass??? It can be argued that risks are taken at events such as these, and that children shouldn't be there ANYWAY, but we all know they are. And there are just assholes in this world, period. So while I'm not saying that there should be zero lighttubes, there are legitimate reasons why less light tubes is a better choice.
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Post by cavedweller73 on Sept 4, 2011 21:12:57 GMT -5
Believe me, I'm the last person on here who'll say that there doesn't need to be light tubes. I was just trying to say that they don't need to be over used in every match and when they are used, it shouldn't just be a "I'll hit you with one, now you hit me" kind of spot. Also, certain workers who have gone on record as saying that light tubes should be banned all together (Devon Moore...he said it on his "Best of..." DVD) shouldn't be booked in any form of a light tube match. Those are the kinds of small details that will make this tournament better then this year's TOD and Carnage Cup. As I've said before, the lack of creative stips is one (of many) things that really killed TOD this year.
There are so many examples of matches that had no light tubes at all used that were still plenty sick and violent. As Obo said, the Havoc/Masada gusset plate match was pretty sick. I was at Cage of Death 11 when TJ and Nick Gage had one of the sickest no-rope barbed-wire matches I've ever seen, not to even mention the main event match between Havoc and Sami Callihan. That match was off-the-charts insane! Even just a week ago, I saw the match between Havoc and Drake Younger in IPW. The worst weapon even used in that match was a bat wrapped in barbed wire and still, that was an extremely stiff, brutal match.
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Post by rotten4life on Sept 4, 2011 21:33:53 GMT -5
Yea i mean they say enter at your own risk for a reason, tubes are good for dvd sales as well as there is nothing like hearing a tube break over a human being live lol. Have them for sure just maybe just build to the spots more so there doesnt have to be a million tubes used.
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Post by BestMistyEVER on Sept 4, 2011 21:45:16 GMT -5
Oh I know it's enter at your own risk. But I have seen fans at shows get legit pissed over WAY less than getting cut, you know?? I mean not everyone gets the Enter at Your Own Risk warning.
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Post by olympus on Sept 4, 2011 21:45:48 GMT -5
Watch the 4 way match from KOTCM 2 and you'll see exactly why having light tubes just for the sake of having light tubes is stupid.
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